We used RWS match brass, 41.2 grains of VVN 140, and the Sierra 168 This is an important test, with significant findings. Ballistic Tips paired with 58.0 grs. primers could be tested at different temperatures under the same conditions to see if temperatures made any difference. 4.1-6.0 .4300, 7 Remington 9 1/2 LR 4.75 3.7-6.25 .5679, 8 Fed Match GM210M 4.64 4.0-5.6 .3296, 9 Federal 210 LR 4.62 $115.00. These are the links to the two pages, directly. %PDF-1.4 % Of the others, there WAS a relation between weight and power. Fishing Bait Chart; Hunting Camo Patterns; Guns. For example, would you guess that Sellier & Bellot primers had the lowest ES, by a significant margin? use the Brisance chart to adjust the powder charge to a safe level. The amount of work involved to do the same test as you conducted herein would be immense, which is probably why it has never been published together as a single body of work. trailer JavaScript is disabled. Large Rifle 5,3 Boxer. There's not a lot of variance in primer burn rate, only in quantity of powder to burn per primer. All the following groups were 3 shots at 100 yards, I wrote The following are the results of the 25-06 Remington, shot That said, I had heard the CCI 450's and #41's were basically the same so I was searching for differences and found these post's. Most of the tests were of 100 or more primers. J E CUSTOM . Thank you very much for your efforts in providing this excellent article. And, NO! This shows the pointer after a shot has been fired. var _gaq = _gaq || []; Cases larger than that we normally used magnum primers. We are here to talk about primers. Standard deviation . Interesting read, thanks! 5 Alliant e3 40 Ramshot True Blue. 30H32. Primer with Biggest Group Size: CBC Magtech 9 (0.7 average, three 5-shot groups). 0000002349 00000 n - Cases that utilize small rifle primers and operate at higher pressures (55,000 psi) should use CCI 450, CCI BR4, Fed 205 and Rem 7 1/2. Get a deck of Remington Playing Cards for $1 with ammo purchase. %%EOF I don't have a link to the site , but 6mmbench rest.com or one of those type sites have extensive pages on standard primers. It confirms what many of us have known for a long time. Posted: 5/29/2018 9:45:54 PM EST. $7.30. Originally designed for the bolt-action Mosin-Nagant rifle, it was used during the late tsarist era and throughout the Soviet period to the present day. Buy in store-Limit 2. I just remembered people liking them. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Lyman & Nosler classify this as a standard primer, but Hornady, Handloads.com, and Chuck Hawks classify it as a small rifle magnum primer. ALL Bulletin content is copyrighted, 2023 AccurateShooter.com. Makes me think about some BR4 primers for my 6.5x47L over the #400. If you shoot a .308 Win, or any cartridge that uses a Large Rifle (LR) primer, you should read an important article by Laurie Holland in Target Shooter Magazine. Do not use these charts for load development. Winchester Reloading Large Rifle Magnum Primers. same bullet and brass. different case sizes. Also, though I did not retain the article, some years ago I recall an article in Shooting Times that addressed the hotness of primers. A F215 in a .338 Win Mag load. TYPE OF PRIMER USED FOR PCS PER GRATING GRATINGS PER BOX BOXES PER CASE WEIGHT PER CASE; kg lb; V360157: Small Pistol 4,4 Boxer: . The ES/SD numbers will therefore be higher than is typical with five-shot strings. Buy in store-Limit 2. We thought we would run our own test, using all the different primers that we have here. This is interesting, according to this, Federal Gold Metal MatchKing 308 ammo should not be shot in a AR10 or 308 platform. It may not display this or other websites correctly. June 3rd, 2015 LR Primer Types Tested for Velocity, ES/SD, Group Size and More! The Wolf Small rifle with the copper cup I've had failure to fire with my light striking bolt guns, but they go bang every time in my ar15. work up a load from a safe, published starting load. All cases for each group Small pistol and rifle primers utilize a cup 0.175" in diameter, while large pistol and rifle primers measure 0.210" across. ga.src = ('https:' == document.location.protocol ? Holland, a talented shooter from the UK, tested no less than sixteen (16) different large primer types using a custom F-TR target rifle shot from the bench. 0000000016 00000 n German Salazar's pictures were taken in 2005. Three shot groups. These primers use a heavier, thicker cup to withstand the more intense small-cased rifle cartridges such as the .222 and .223 Remingtons. As an aside, a couple of years ago, shortmags.org published a list of primers from hottest to coolest. Thank you, 0000010068 00000 n I thought this Large Rifle Magnum Match (LRM MATCH) Federal - 215m. LP = Large Pistol . Read more. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Many handloaders think the 215 is still the hottest commercial rifle primer, but the CCI and Winchester magnum rifle primers are just as hot, if not a little hotter. Great info. The main question that remains for me is how the primers results might vary between different cartridges, bullet weights, and powder loads. Match King bullet, molly coated. CCI No. On the other hand, if some of the primers that gave poorer results in your testing with a specific .308 load gave much better results with a different cartridge/powder/bullet weight, it would be much more difficult to make any general predictions that might allow a reloader to keep a stock of only two or three types on hand, one of which would be likely to give satisfactory results over a wide range of cartridges and powders. .2232, 16 CCI 300 LP 3.18 I have Federal 210 primers(only 30 or so) but my local store also has Fed 210M primers. Closed the bolt and off she went. This is the home made tester. I used the CCI large pistol magnums primers, and they performed just like rifle primers, they didn't peirce, or flatten, ignited the rifle powder just fine. load have been discussed many times before. It has a 27-inch barrel, and we installed a CCI 300 STD Large Rifle Primers - 100 Ct. No media assets available for preview. coated. Large rifle primers all come with one brass thickness, a nominal 0.027" (unlike small rifle primers which vary from 0.020" to 0.025" depending on make/type). Type: Small Rifle Match. I learned Cci 400 and cci 550 are the same! I took four large pistol primers (CCI 300's), four large rifle primers (CCI 200's) and four large rifle bench rest primers (CCI BR-2's) and measured the width and depth of all three primer types. A few Lots of people had good luck with them. I have never looked at primers apart from reliability. I found this a while back but it seems it goes against the Win primers being hotter than the CCI. 0000005537 00000 n It is beyond question that switching primers can often improve (lower) ES/SD with a given load. P. Plinker147 Well . Click Photo to read full test results in Target Shooter Magazine.. It's higher than 30-30, and not much less than the 30-06. Clive. 2 Winchester WAALite 37 VihtaVuori N340. (function() { But if you cant spare the time right now, here are some highlights below: Primer with Lowest Velocity: Remington 9 M Magnum (2780 fps) CCI 250 MAG Large Rifle Primers - 100 Ct. $9.49. Found this from offsite search, exactly the information I need. And get this, among ALL the primers tested, Rem 9M Magnum primers produced the lowest velocity, while Rem 9 LR (non-magnum) primers yielded the highest velocity. That article featured actual pressures changes in identical charge weights using Lake City Match brass, Sierra 168 grain Match Kings and 40.5 grains of IMR-4895. 506 0 obj <> endobj All 3 round with the RWS primer had hang fired. This would give us some sort of idea of how they perform in chart, http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/, http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm. Both for 6.5 CM. The cartridge remains one of the few standard-issue rimmed . A good question Clive! test, using all the different primers that we have here. 41 Rifle Primers - 100 Count. A final part of the test took a small number of the best performers and ran them in my primary 155.5gn Berger BT Fullbore / IMR-8208 XBR load without the MagnetoSpeed on to see what they did to groups without a load-retune against my usual CCI-BR4 load and to see if they would cope OK with 60,000 psi pressure. 0000002481 00000 n Yeah yeah yeah, and matchkings won't kill a deer. Your first post mentioned measuring the depth of the primers, and to my way of looking at the world, that . Sale! Add to cart. My .338 RUM likes 100 grains of H1000 behind a 225-grain Nosler Partition bullet. Listed From Fastest to Slowest: 1 NORMA R1 36 Winchester WSF. I am using RCBS bench priming tool model 9460 link here: Strange that Lyman is a #2 and RCBS is #3 shell holder. We got them as PMC brand here until that company disappeared and when we get them nowadays, which is rarely, they use the Russian manufacturers name, Murom. Where are S&Bs sold without paying to special shipment? 14 Likes. were selected and match prepped, all have the same weight. Rifle primers use tougher cups than pistol primers because the firing pin blow of rifles is usually harder than the firing pin blow . 0000002213 00000 n Store For Availability. Proud Member Of The NRA. $7.49. 0000001728 00000 n Editors Comment: Laurie shot three, 5-shot groups at 100 yards with each primer type. really see any indication from the above test to change that. 0000027388 00000 n The first "magnum" primer, the Federal 215 was designed for this very purpose. A write-up will be done soon. The new Russian This is on a DMS (don't mean squat) scale. So my question is whether you would expect to see a very similar trend among the primers you tested with other cartridges and/or bullet weights commonly used in F-TR or F-Open? The following loads with 63 grains of H870, same bullet and One of the frozen rounds with the CCI BR 2 hang fired. 'Berdan' and 'Boxer' layouts and primer components. Powder Burn Rate Chart; Primer Manufacturer Chart; Shellholder Chart; Bullet Abbreviations; User Loading Data. 2847 0 obj <>/Filter/FlateDecode/ID[<17398BDBD67F214CBB3755FAA4BE7340><20967B39C4AB1349BB25AF309099C3A9>]/Index[2829 26]/Info 2828 0 R/Length 94/Prev 197341/Root 2830 0 R/Size 2855/Type/XRef/W[1 3 1]>>stream Trying to decide which primers to buy next. Every serious hand-loader should definitely read the full test results to understand Lauries methodology and get all the details. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Air Rifle Accessories Air Rifle Bags Air Rifle Magazines Air Rifle Pellets Air Rifle Targets Air Rifles Co2 Air Rifles Hunting Air Rifles PCP Air Rifles Package Deals Target & Youth Air Rifles; Airsoft. 50 BMG (BMG) CCI - No.35. 2854 0 obj <>stream This is a retype after losing the original web page. 338 Lapua size. Or a small primer pocket. We have found the 0000077528 00000 n LRM = Large Rifle Mag . 506 42 . SPM = Small Pistol Mag . Apr 30, 2012. I think all of the flame pictures help illustrate that the variety of primer models do different stuff despite all primers being divided into just a few categories. 6,5 to 9,3 mm. We used Lapua brass and the New. 3.8-4.8 .3218, 12 KVB 7 LR Russian 4.27 3.8-4.8 .2213, 13 Rem 91/2 (30 yrs old) 4.16 3.8-4.8 .3427, 14 Rem LP 4.47 Large rifle primers are 0.008" thicker than a large pistol primer. Federal Gold Medal Large Magnum Rifle Primer - 100 Ct. $9.39. _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']); I think I am going to try out some 450's now because I don't need to worry about slam fires in my 6.5x47L and they tend to be cheaper. The shot is fired against a weight which in turn moves a pointer. Product Details. firing 15 Nosler 130-gr. Remington 9-1/2 Large Rifle Centerfire Primers - 100 Ct. No media assets available for preview. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. WHILE MAGTECH BRAND PRIMERS HAVE NOT BEEN IMPORTED AND OFFERED FOR SALE THROUGH AUTHORIZED CHANNELS FOR SEVERAL YEARS, THERE ARE STILL SUBSTANTIAL QUANTITIES REMAINING IN RELOADER'S INVENTORIES. If you used my "Benchmark/Baseline/95% Solution" load method, you'd know in a few shots if your new primer choice was hotter, cooler or the same. 0000053767 00000 n I know everyone has a favorite, and although theyre really tough to get, I would really liked to see the Wolf LR-M in that mix. Since these were readily available, I chose these two primers for use in this test. While searching around for some info I stumbled on to this thread and its too good not to share. These primers are designed for everything from small-caliber rifles and handguns to the large-caliber rifles . brass. The last row in each table shows the Large Rifle = LR, Large Rifle Magnum = LRM, Large pistol =LP, Brand/type Power Average Range Std. 0000053144 00000 n We have found the following primers in our possession. It is obvious that the thicker cups will withstand more pressure. PSA 300blk with some off brand remanufactered ammo. Which is better for muzzleloading, large rifle primers or 209 primers?There are many different types of muzzleloader ignit. Thanks! Not that I've ever seen. BLR/BSR = Berdan (not available) Cartridge Primer Size . Must add the Remington License Plate Frame to your cart, one per order. 22661. Within every Remington primer is a group of subcomponents assembled to exceptionally tight tolerances. At .020' thick cup metal, these primers are minimal, at best, for light .223 Remington loads. In early black powder guns such as muzzleloaders, the primer was essentially the same chemical as the main propellant (albeit usually in a finer-powdered form), but poured into an external flash . I load those in hornet 222 220 swift and other varmint calibers. A forum community dedicated to Smith & Wesson firearm owners and enthusiasts. the results of each group so you can compare that with others, as well as the group The following loads are with 41.2 grains of VVN 540, which Primer with Highest Velocity: Remington 9 LR (2815 fps) Their magnum LR primer is the F215. Get a Federal Dry Bag for $2 with ammo purchase. Use the .308 Win Palma brass and small primers myself. The rationale for doing side-by-side tests is to see what effect primer choice has on ballistics, i.e. Large rifle primers all appear to have the same cup thickness, no matter what the type. Small pistol primers - which are about the same size as small rifle primers but designed specifically for handguns. We just wanted to 0000054368 00000 n The generally accepted difference is heat is 6 percent, up and down from the middle ground CCI200, although that is subject to actual scientific data, which I . The redesigned metal parts improve sensitivity and reduce seating force. Out of stock. We thought we would run our own bullet and brass. 2.7-3.5 .2406, 17 Federal 150 LP 3.11 CCI 400 primers are designed for .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, and .222 Remington loads: NOT for .223 Remington! The following are with 92 grains of H 870, same bullet and The first bit of useful trivia is that even though Small Rifle and Small Pistol primer pockets share the same depth specification, Large Rifle and Large Pistol primers do not. 0000028191 00000 n What is the pressure of a .44mag? Warning: Some published data calls for Large Rifle primers, though this brass was designed for, and most data is for Large Pistol primers. Match event calendar and rifle competition accuracy training tips. Add to Wishlist. Gold Medal Centerfire Primer .205. I use cci 400 for my AR with great success ! Rifle cartridges 5,652 R and cal. I have not measures themperhaps your not seating them fully? Three shot groups. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. Remington - 209. If you are to use the taller Large Rifle primer, we recommend reaming the primer pocket deeper (.125"-.132"). There are primer Brisance test that rate primers by there brisance (Heat) but as far as I know no one has checked them for heat sensitivity. 40,5. CCI 350 MAG Large Pistol Primers - 100 Ct. $22.99. Not that I have found, and why I said "nothing". The average group size for the top six primers varied by only 0.10 (0.43 to 0.53), so one cant conclude that one type is much better than another. According to the same Internet sources, the Federal Gold Match Large Rifle Magnum primers (215M) are at the top of the list in terms of heat. <<917A3329DAD4B341BF9A2FBBF1E535ED>]/Prev 194532/XRefStm 1395>> 0000015415 00000 n Three shot Many handloaders think the 215 is still the hottest commercial rifle primer, but the CCI and Winchester magnum rifle primers are just as hot, if not a little hotter. I used the CCI large pistol magnums primers, and they performed just like rifle primers, they didn't peirce, or flatten, ignited the rifle powder just fine. I know this powder is far too slow for this application, but we thought NRA Member..SWCA Member..Semi-Retired, But Not Dead Yet. Those extra heavy tended to be stronger, and light were weaker. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Since then almost every company has changed their primers. average velocities and MV consistency. The standard primer sizes for metallic centerfire (rifle and pistol) cartridges are small (.175" diameter) and large (.210" diameter). Read more; CCI #34 7.62mm Military Primers. see how these components would perform under the conditions stated here. Check With Your Local Ammo. We know that major seating faults definitely have an effect, but do minor variations in seating tension too? As Slamfire said, the #34 and #41 military hard primers likely will be more constant. LR Primer Types Tested for Velocity, ES/SD, Group Size and More! This is where the similarity ends. CCI 34 - 7.62mm Large Rifle Primers Box of 1 000 Limit 5 per customer. Three shot groups. You are using an out of date browser. In part 1 of my Large Rifle Comparison I take a look at each manufacturer's particular primer and give a quick overview. PRODUCT No: TYPE OF PRIMER USED FOR PCS PER BOX Federal Large Rifle Magnum #215M Gold Medal Match Primers | 1,000 Count. Between these two extremes are Large Rifle primers of almost any brisance level. Or standard when choosing a primer the. I think we have enough data above to get some sort of idea of how 18,4. I cannot Remington HTP .38 SPC 110-Grain Ammunition - 50 Rounds . Results are much closer than with the LR primers and again there was a surprise winner (CBC Magtech 7 1/2). LPM = Large Pistol Mag . Heat of explosion per gram is similar as well. a custom Remington 700 we have built ourselves. Leupold LPS 3.5-14X scope in Sako mounts on it. CCI BR2 and the Fed 's were the most even of the common ones. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. This extensive test is an important contribution to the knowledge base of precision shooting. brass. His varmint bullets are absolutely fantastic. Quest for Less Vertical Six Primer Types Tested at 500 Yards, Vertical Dispersion Test Six Primer Types Tested at 500 Yards, Primer Availability Report Wolf Primers Have Arrived, Primer Comparison Testing with 6 BRA at 500 Yards. the 3 frozen overnight. Almost forgot, Saeed has some data too http://www.accuratereloading.com/primer.html, ------------------"it is up to God to judge these terrorists; it is up to us to arrange their meeting" Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf, [This message has been edited by R-WEST (edited 02-09-2002).]. 6mmBR.com is the best guide for 6mm BR Benchrest precision shooting, complete with 6BR FAQ, Reloading Data, Shooter Message Boards, Reader Polls, and Photo Gallery. Primer with Highest ES/SD: Remington 9 M Magnum (47/14.0 fps) Now, I tend to read pressure signs from my primers first. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I'm am not doing this again! Out of stock. Take them with a grain of salt and as a guide only. Weighing Primers: I did some test weighing and found the bench rest had virtually no variations. Rifle Calibers; Rifle Recoil Table; Handgun Caliber Chart; Handgun Recoil Chart; Caliber Comparisons; Ammo Size Chart; Shot Size Chart; . Primers labeled "match grade" cost 10 to 20 percent more than standard versions. Reading primers tells you a lot about how hard the primer cups are, what your headspace is like, how big your firing pin hole is, and how sharp your firing pin is, but it doesn't tell much about peak pressure. 0 $11.99. We re If you are shooting a 22 Cooper, Hornet, or a Bee, the .020" cup will perform admirably. %PDF-1.6 % AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. bullet, 55 grains of Reloader 19, in Winchester brass. The 7.6254mmR is a rimmed rifle cartridge developed by the Russian Empire and introduced as a service cartridge in 1891. shoot them as a group, noting both the velocity and the accuracy, and compare I thought wolf and tula were unobtanium via Russia? Ive had a slam fire. Another thing that is not in this test, but I have noted, is using a newsprint wad over the primer. The following are with 80 grains of VVN 165, same bullet Does anyone have any information regarding the characteristics of S & B primers and how they compare to the other primer brands described above? Between these two extremes are Large Rifle primers of almost any brisance level. I think the BR4 is milder than the CCI 400 primers. Federal Champion Centerfire Small Rifle Primer - 100 Ct. No media assets available for preview. Check With Your Local Ammo. 5.0 out of 5 star rating (5) When I use the press the primers are seated harder.In your opinion would there be a difference in ES because of the seating mechanism? In the recent past I had been using BR-4's but have found the extra flash from #41's to give me slightly better groups at 1k. 0000077042 00000 n 3 VihtaVuori N310 38 IMR, Co Hi-Skor 800-X. Non-corrosive, all weather primers deliver fast, dependable ignition under any shooting condition. The following are the results of a 308 Winchester, shot in Most basic there are large rifle primers. So, the short version is, use the primer recommended in the recipe. Fiocchi 616 Shotshell Primers #209 | 1,000 Count $ 89.99. 0000012690 00000 n There's not a lot of variance in primer burn rate, only in quantity of powder to burn per primer. _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-6323545-2']); HTH, Dutch. All powder charges CCI 350 Magnum Large Pistol Primers 100-Pack $ 6 99 6 dollars 99 cents. 0000077015 00000 n Another unexpected finding was that with all of the 17-round strings halted for 15 or more minutes for barrel cooling between shots 10 and 11, in over half of the strings shot 11 produced a (low) MV that was out of the range of the others and had to be discounted. At minimum load a handful of reduced loads with a new primer. 1 of the frozen BR2 rounds hag fired. mounts. Read more; CCI Aps Strips . SR = Small Rifle . Keep to the lower end of reloading recommendations. mounts. My Components; My Loading Data; All User Loading Data; Components . 0000003606 00000 n CCI No. RWS, CCI BR2, Federal 210M, Federal 210, 3.2-5.6 .5171, 15 KVB 45 LP Russian 3.89 3.3-4.2 0000014925 00000 n Laurie Simply outstanding work and write-up as I always expect when you are involved! On the 6mm BR forum a guy took a bunch of photos of different primers and measured the flame against a ruler to determine the aggressive rating of the primer. . The Rem's had some very wild shots high and low. The following are with 75 grains of Reloader 19. I wanted to see if anyone else has my experience with wolf primers which is contrary to the notes in the OP. Cameron. to be similar in burning rate. 0000004308 00000 n All Rights Reserved. . This has been noted by some sharps shooters when they break a firing pin. This another thing to consider in shooting. Lauries findings will doubtless influence many hand-loaders who hope to produce more consistent ammunition, or achieve better accuracy.
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